check engine light won't clear and no codes

[blowfoo]

My first problem is that I love this car. I have had very few problems between service intervals and it's easy to work on.

1992 Mazda Protege SOHC DX, about 180,000 miles, real close to needing engine rebuild but doesn't burn oil.

I drove it to a 4H meeting in the morning (5 miles), and it wouldn't start 2 hours later. Tried fuel starter fluid at the throttle plate, not even a bump (engine turns from starter only). Let it cool down, nothing. Had it towed home.

Checked for spark at no. 1 spark plug, nothing. Checked for spark at the igntition coil, nothing. Igniton coil meets spec (1ohm at primary, 16Kohm at secondary through the ignition wire).

I had no way of checking the ignition module. Mazda dealership only tests it in the car and NAPA didn't have a cross-reference for the Protege igniters in their tester manual.

Hey, the CEL is on! Set up for reading codes at the diagnostic plug by jumping TEN to GND. All accessories OFF, transmission in neutral, ignition switch to position ON. CEL is on, but not blinking any codes. Checked battery, 12.93Vdc using Fluke DMM. Reset jumper (22ga solid copper wire) in diagnostic plug. Tried again. CEL is on, but not blinking any codes.

Time to try clearing the CEL. Disconnected the negative battery terminal and pressed the brake for more than five seconds, basically following the procedure in the Haynes manual. Reconnected the neg. battery terminal.

Turned ignition switch to ON, CEL comes on but does not go off. I haven't tried starting the car, so I don't see how any new codes could have been entered or saved. Tried to start the car. It wouldn't start, same as it was four days ago.

I was hoping for a code 02, replace the distributor, and drive off!

Is my engine control module bricked?!

- Jeff

[Mazda_Powered]

sounds like there's a connection issue in the diagnostics box to me.

have you checked all fuses and connections? if the 'engine' fuse is blown inside the cockpit, the car will not fire, same with most of the under hood fuses as well.

also best bet IF you think you may know the issue, look up testing methods on the FSM and you'll be able to narrow the problem down.

Also if you jump F/P & GND it will kick your fuel pump on to make sure it works.

JACK.

[blowfoo]

sounds like there's a connection issue in the diagnostics box to me.

have you checked all fuses and connections? if the 'engine' fuse is blown inside the cockpit, the car will not fire, same with most of the under hood fuses as well.

also best bet IF you think you may know the issue, look up testing methods on the FSM and you'll be able to narrow the problem down.

Also if you jump F/P & GND it will kick your fuel pump on to make sure it works.

JACK.

Hi Jack,

Originally, I thought it was fuel. The tank was run almost empty, fuel light on for too long, wasn't sure I'd make it to the gas pump. Maybe the pump picked up silt and jammed. When I took the back seat off, I found a loose strainer in the well of the seat. It could have been from something else like a garden hose (?). I have never seen the fuel pump out. I am probably more than third owner of the car. Who knows what was done? I also couldn't hear the pump running when turning on the ignition. Some pumps are noisier than others? Is there any harm in removing the fuel pump for inspection?

I could hear injectors clicking on start. Fuel mist blew through the opening when I had the spark plug out for testing. With no spark, I stopped looking for fuel problems.

I will check all fuses. I will look for bad connections. My car died without warning, no glitches, no intermittent failures, just up and died.

I don't have an FSM (Haynes doesn't count does it?). Every shop manual I have ever bought for cars, somehow I never needed to use them. Now I wish I had one.

Jeff

[MazdaNoob]

my B8 did the same thing was a disty ... just cut and dead . was also right @ 180k miles as well. if you have access to a disty just to borrow for diagnosis thats your best bet ... btw with the cel ... the check engine light comes on and stays on with the key on ... sounds like your jumper isnt good ?

[Turpro]

When my disty went it just died as well.


On a side note, I'm in the nati as well . Over by lovelend.

[crazycanadian]

When you tested for spark and had non you know right away it has nothing to do with the fuel system...

check your dis, with out a signal she wont power up and fire the coil... thus no sparky sparky.. I would pull the cap off and make sure rotor turns while cranking to be sure you don't have a snapped timing belt...

[blowfoo]

How much current does the fuel pump draw?

Snapped timing belt? Wow, now it's just getting ugly. I will check to make sure the rotor turns and that I get a signal from the distributor.

I checked all of the fuses last night. The 80A MAIN fuse is cooked but not open. The clear plastic cover on the fuse was white with bubbles and the metal part of the fuse body (that is supposed to open) was black. Resistance was near zero with a DMM. Probably not the case when passing high current through it. I will replace it. The FUEL INJ 30A fuse was also discolored, but not open. All fuses in the cabin were good, including ENGINE.

NOTE: The alternator is new from the previous owner. They may have had problems with the old alternator that caused the MAIN fuse to get hot.

Can someone tell me how much current a good fuel pump is supposed to draw? I can put a fuse in line with the pump for test and save the new 80A and 30A fuses from being destroyed.

- Jeff

When you tested for spark and had non you know right away it has nothing to do with the fuel system...

check your dis, with out a signal she wont power up and fire the coil... thus no sparky sparky.. I would pull the cap off and make sure rotor turns while cranking to be sure you don't have a snapped timing belt...

[shameem]

Here are some part numbers for the ignitor -
Mitsubishi #J701 (stock)
Duralast #JA185
Borg-Warner #CBE553
GP Sorensen #115083
Niehoff #WA913A
Standard Motor Products #LX623
AC Delco #E1910E

It will be easier to eliminate simpler things like ignitor before moving on to the ECU.... The ignitor is extremely costly if you buy new - so hit up your local junkyards...

[blowfoo]

Crazycanadian was correct. The distributor was not turning when the engine is cranked. The timing belt wasn't turning either, but is was tight around the top pulley and the tensioner.

I don't have it off yet, but I expect that when I do, I will find a bunch of teeth missing at the bottom of the timing belt at the crank pulley.

Going back to the ignition module. It was sad I couldn't find anyone to test it for me. I also haven't learned how it works other than pulse from ECM triggers the ignition module which in turn fires the ignition coil. With today's electronics I could program a chip for $50 and make a better ECM than the one in the car. So why is it that an ignition module costs $100, when it's using no more than few transistors? Without the information, I have to pay to play.

[shameem]

You can replace the ignition module with a chevy HEI module very easily...

[khrys771]

When my disty went it just died as well.


On a side note, I'm in the nati as well . Over by lovelend.

and a friend drove 100 miles to bring that good ditsy to you also, dont forget that. i expect the same in return... so how is that dist holding up?

[Turpro]

and a friend drove 100 miles to bring that good ditsy to you also, dont forget that. i expect the same in return... so how is that dist holding up?

TY again Chris. It's doing the job.