Cannot adjust distributer past 10 degrees

[sleeper7]

Hey, I actually have an EGT, but its all the same for this question.

Among other problems, I'm trying to get the car to pass an e-test, after failing miserably one thing I checked was the timing. It was set around 6 degrees before tdc. I had a friend help me out and we advanced it to the stock 10. Something odd we noticed is that is as far as the distributer will turn, theres 2 guides for the bolts and 10 degrees is at the end.

I had to clean up the timing plate and the dent on the pulley, even painted them with pink nailpolish, I'm sure its dead on. Not sure if it matters, but I turned the crank and the timing belt has all its teeth, as well the cam pulleys are aligned properly. The only thing I can think of is the gun I used had an adjustment on the back of it to set degrees. I am assuming it changes the pulse in one way or another, but it didnt seem to work because when checking the mark didnt move when I changed the degrees.

As well the car has been sitting for 2 years with a near empty tank and I topped it up with regular gas, so if its been advanced as far as 20 or whatever you'd think I'd get some pinging, but it runs very strong.

Anyways thx for any help in advance.

[CaymenEGT91]

did you have the "TEN" & "GND" pins jumped on the diag. connector to set base timing mode?

[sleeper7]

yea I did, warmed car up first conected them watched idle drop, I should have mentioned that the car was in diag mode.

[MazdaNoob]

can you post your results ? from the failed emissions we can tell if the timing issue is something you can deal with AFTER the car is plated.
also after 2 years sitting i highly recommend draining the tank completely. i know you just topped up so run through that as quickly as possible then ( if it is the stock tank) undo the drain plug and drain it completely there is always a reserve that the pump cant reach that is ment to hold built up condensation ( gas floats).

i would suspect the timing gun .. borrow another and confirm.

just b4 your retest go with 1/4 tank of CLEAN gas and add a bottle (4L) of methyl hydrate you will find it @ crappy tire. run the car hot on the highway for about 15 min then take the test hot .

be sure to fill up right away after the test as you dont want to run on methyl for long

[MADMIKE]

Fwiw

The SOHC engine in the SE had some emissions issues. The PO claimed to have had the timing belt replaced
The idler pulley started to make loud squeaking noises. Pulled the cover off to find a very sloppy belt.
I'm still amazed that the belt never skipped. The ignition timing is measured via the CRANK degrees.
The camshaft can be advanced or retarded via a tooth or a sloppy belt. Which will affect the emissions output as well.

You may want to verify the belt is not sloppy and that the sprockets are correctly aligned with the crank.

[therieldeal]

i actually found that retarding the timing significantly helped my protege get through emissions

by significantly i mean i had it set to roughly 5* ATDC

[MADMIKE]

i actually found that retarding the timing significantly helped my protege get through emissions

by significantly i mean i had it set to roughly 5* ATDC

Wow! Boost and high CR will can create excessive NOx via high combustion pressures. That's the visible brownish smog.
Depending on what modifications you have done to the engine, retarding the timing moves the combustion process to continue out the exhaust. Rather than heat of the exhausted gases lighting off the converter, the combustion process is taking place partially in the exhaust system, combined with the chemical reaction of the converter, you can have a very clean exhaust. Albeit, at the cost of a very lethargic and lazy engine.
This was a 'trick of the trade' for years, but here in California timing is checked for compliance as well. +/- 1* is acceptable. Anything outside of that range is considered out of tune or attempting to mask.

Sleeper, did you get a printout of your failed emissions test?
What exactly did your car fail at? HC, CO, NOx? Any by how much?

[therieldeal]

my protege was a stock SOHC, i guess i should have mentioned that. lol

[sleeper7]

You guys are fast, the tests are as follows:

type limit reading
co 0.40 fail
hc 70 fail
nox 500 1500

after changing cat and timing results were

type limit result
co 0.40 0.02
hc 70 92
nox 500 3500

I cant find the paper for the first test but remembered the results, I''ve ran through over a tank of regular gas before the second test.

I've replaced the following... plugs/wires/cap/rotor/airfilter/oilchange/cat. I didnt change the oxy sensor, I checked for vacume leaks and only found a problem with the high speed inlet air solenoid, but that only affects vics operation, although the shutters would be open the entire time, I dont think thats letting more air in.

One big thing I stupidly forgot about was that the previous owner ducktaped the large air intake hose together, I took it apart and it was litterally ripped in half so I used black electrical tape to fix it back up. lol I probably went through 2 rolls of it, but that must be where air is getting in makeing i run lean.

[MazdaNoob]

even e-tape wont fix that .. get your butt to the wreckers and pick up a new intake hose ( i dont have a spare or i would send you one ) and the methyl hydrate will work wonders for the hc and i think the nox .. you need to double check the timing with another gun because i think you are running far in advance

[sleeper7]

Cool thanks a lot, I'm glad I came here for advice, I posted elsewhere and didnt have much luck, I'll be back when its time to figureout why my brakes are messed up and theres no power steering, but one thing at a time.

[stylingtwagon]

fix the vics and btw u have to run the cat for a few dys even weeks for it to be effecient my car wouldnt pass an hr after i got the cat on but three days later and a 30 mile drive before the test and btw u can also turn 1 tooth on the vaf 1+1- and it can help so much on smog tests trust me california is the most strict state for smog test ! it took me 5 months to get me bp wagon to pass . Change that 02 sensor or at least pull it out an see what color it is .

[MADMIKE]

my protege was a stock SOHC, i guess i should have mentioned that. lol

HAH! I was wondering how you were able to retard the timing 15*

Sleeper, while you are changing everything also change out the fuel filter. Mine was original and was full of crap. A lean condition can occur and cause similar readings. Don't forget your O2 sensor. Purchase Denso, Delco, Delphi, or an NTK unit. Bosch units are total crap, you can identify them by there beer can size. They take forever to heat up, don't stay heated, and are slow at cross counts. They are lazy and will not react to changes in the exhaust gases.

[sleeper7]

Forgot to mention I did change the fuel filter as well, but didnt know that about catalytic converters. I'll just take it for a long drive before the test and maybe go hard on the way back. I've got another o2 sensor in my gtx manifold, maybe ill switch them around, this is begining to cost more than its worth, you wouldnt believe the work this car needs. Regardless I"ll need to have it pass before I decide what to do so thanks for all the input.

[FE3-323]

i just posted a good intake tube up for sale. sounds like you could use it