Plans

[MD323]

stay FWD, ask the AWD kids how hard it is to find driveline parts cheap

[hit25cal]

Yeah, bushings, brakes, and ball joints are completely unimportant, especially when you're doubling the car's power.

I am also doubting the greatness of your suspension, and your wheels are definitely hurting your performance.

Good luck with your sweet plans.

I never said anything about how I wasn't going to do the brakes, bushings, or ball joints. All I said is the GTX comes first. Then the other stuff. The car doesn't even run right now so I don't think spending money on that stuff is going to do anything for me.

My suspension is not the topic here, but since you have no idea what is sitting under my car please keep comments about it to yourself... You don't know about my suspension so don't talk about it.

the rims are not hurting performance that bad... I have done the math and it only takes like 10 extra ft-lbs of torque to achieve the same top speed with these rims over stock. And when I get the engine installed and tuned properly, a few extra pounds of boost will cure anything wrong with that aspect. The only way the rims are leaving is if I find a set that "I" like, "ME" not anyone else.

NOW back to the ENGINE which is the TOPIC of this thread

[1967cutlass]

I never said anything about how I wasn't going to do the brakes, bushings, or ball joints. All I said is the GTX comes first. Then the other stuff. The car doesn't even run right now so I don't think spending money on that stuff is going to do anything for me.

My suspension is not the topic here, but since you have no idea what is sitting under my car please keep comments about it to yourself... You don't know about my suspension so don't talk about it.

the rims are not hurting performance that bad... I have done the math and it only takes like 10 extra ft-lbs of torque to achieve the same top speed with these rims over stock. And when I get the engine installed and tuned properly, a few extra pounds of boost will cure anything wrong with that aspect. The only way the rims are leaving is if I find a set that "I" like, "ME" not anyone else.

NOW back to the ENGINE which is the TOPIC of this thread

:lol:

I do know what suspension you have, I saw it in another thread. If you think a DX with progressive eibach springs handles well... then I guess good for you but wow.

And no, it's not as simple as -10 ft/lbs from your net output. You obviously don't know anything about suspensions based on your comments and it's pretty clear that you don't want to learn.

Now..

Adding 100+whp to a car like yours is sketchy at best, it has a long way to go before that's even remotely a good idea.

I don't want to come on here and read about how you killed a family or ended up in a ditch when you had to make a panic stop from 120mph on the ****ing DX brakes.

[Turpro]

I agree with swapping out to at least a lx brake setup while you doing the project. Also stick to fwd gtx. It's the easiest and least expensive route.

[hit25cal]

:lol:

I do know what suspension you have, I saw it in another thread. If you think a DX with progressive eibach springs handles well... then I guess good for you but wow.

And no, it's not as simple as -10 ft/lbs from your net output. You obviously don't know anything about suspensions based on your comments and it's pretty clear that you don't want to learn.

Now..

Adding 100+whp to a car like yours is sketchy at best, it has a long way to go before that's even remotely a good idea.

I don't want to come on here and read about how you killed a family or ended up in a ditch when you had to make a panic stop from 120mph on the ****ing DX brakes.

Did I ever say that I was going to be driving it before it was done?

Roadtest, maybe

Diving like an idiot at 120mph, with passengers, before I am done building?
WTF DUDE?

What I said was:

the engine is my priority right now, if I do a GTX swap and stay FWD, i can be done in a few weekends, brakes and everything else can wait.

Now to make that even more plain, I am planning on pretty much tearing everything off... Get done with the engine/transmission THEN MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.
I.E. Brakes
I.E. Bushings
I.E. Swapbar
I.E. Balljoints
I.E. Body work
I.E. Paint.
I am not going to be driving this car again until it is ready.

Do you understand the words that I have typed here?

I just bought a second car, and I am going to be driving it for at least another couple of months. WHILE I BUILD ON THIS ONE.

And as far as the wheels go, the wheel/tire combo only weighs 5 lbs more than the stock LX wheel/tire combo.
And weither or not you are mathematically inclined to figure torque on a rotational mass is not my fault.

And to top it all, I am fixing to get a new set of tires that weight another 4 lbs less... so now then, my wheel and tires combo will now weigh 1 lb more than stock... the only difference is going to be where on the wheel/tire the weight is located


CAN WE GET BACK ON TOPIC?

[Lex]

with wheels and tires, one of the biggest differences is the concentration of mass - on large wheels the mass is concentrated at a larger radius from the centre increasing the effect of the added weight. In any case, wheels aside, you will find that a BPT build on its own is a handful. So start with a FWD BPT car and go on from there ... undertaking a huge project unless you have the funds and expertise will just cost you lots of time and money and frustration and you won't get to drive the car.

You can always upgrade later - for now you have a BPT - throw it in. I may be putting a 400hp setup in my car now, but I started with a BPT as well and learned lots along the way.

[hit25cal]

with wheels and tires, one of the biggest differences is the concentration of mass - on large wheels the mass is concentrated at a larger radius from the centre increasing the effect of the added weight. In any case, wheels aside, you will find that a BPT build on its own is a handful. So start with a FWD BPT car and go on from there ... undertaking a huge project unless you have the funds and expertise will just cost you lots of time and money and frustration and you won't get to drive the car.

You can always upgrade later - for now you have a BPT - throw it in. I may be putting a 400hp setup in my car now, but I started with a BPT as well and learned lots along the way.

Yeah I am planning on swapping everything over so that its there and drivable... hoping to be done by Christmas. Upgrades to come later, maybe in spring. I know that right now I have a goal of the 180whp that the BPT was rated at. I'll be happy with that, and whenever I start getting bored I will upgrade from there. Wastegate, BOV, FMIC and the like. But like I said, I am planning on building one thing at a time and go from there when it is back together, then drive it.

But thanks for the input on the wheels, that is the point I was tring to make earlier. Most of the weight on my setup is at the edge of the rim and at the center... you would honestly be surprised at how much metal there is in the middle of those rims, and not so much at the edge. I understand how weight shift affects torque and that is one of the reasons I am planning on buying the lightweight tires.

Engine
Transmission
Brakes
Bushings
Swapbar
Balljoints
Body work
Paint.
I am not going to be driving this car again until it is ready

the only difference is going to be where on the wheel/tire the weight is located

[therieldeal]

i have some EGT swaybars for sale, front and rear

[1967cutlass]

Out of morbid curiosity I searched and found this:

"17" ICW Racing K2's, +38mm offset, with a 73 mm hub bore for hubrings the wheels themselves weigh in at 21lbs"

ORLY

Those are 8-10 pounds heavier than a decent 15" wheel.

As far as your tires

"high performance passenger, summer tires, they weigh in at 18.8lbs"

That's around 1-2 pounds heavier than a normal 15" 205/50/15

What you have is a wheel/ tire that is AT BEST 9 pounds heavier than even reasonable wheels and tires, which would be 30# combined (13# wheels, not THAT light). Have you heard the term unsprung weight?

Not only that, but the gearing is taller (if just a little bit) than a 205/50/15.

If you're planning on building any kind of performance car, this is idiotic in itself. Yet you take it further by buying tires based on their weight, rather than traction or any number of other MORE IMPORTANT attributes.

And you're telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about? Please.

That being said, it's your car so do what you want. At the end of the day you're just crippling your performance by not listening to others that know more about this than you do.

[jasoncsprotege]

I would just keep it FWD. If you really want an AWD, I would just keep your eyes open for one. If you have nothing but time then do the AWD conversion. I had a lot of fun with my Escort BPT'd and with a FMIC and at least 14psi and good exhaust you should be able to get around 210hp at the wheels, which in a FWD car is pretty fun. Especially on the highway. It was a project that I thought about doing with my Escort but just found it illogical to try to do especially with the time and funds it was going to take. What it really comes down to is what do you really want to do and do you have the time and patience to do the conversion.
My 2 cents,
Jason

[hit25cal]

Out of morbid curiosity I searched and found this:

"17" ICW Racing K2's, +38mm offset, with a 73 mm hub bore for hubrings the wheels themselves weigh in at 21lbs"

ORLY

Those are 8-10 pounds heavier than a decent 15" wheel.

As far as your tires

"high performance passenger, summer tires, they weigh in at 18.8lbs"

That's around 1-2 pounds heavier than a normal 15" 205/50/15

What you have is a wheel/ tire that is AT BEST 9 pounds heavier than even reasonable wheels and tires, which would be 30# combined (13# wheels, not THAT light). Have you heard the term unsprung weight?

Not only that, but the gearing is taller (if just a little bit) than a 205/50/15.

If you're planning on building any kind of performance car, this is idiotic in itself. Yet you take it further by buying tires based on their weight, rather than traction or any number of other MORE IMPORTANT attributes.

And you're telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about? Please.

That being said, it's your car so do what you want. At the end of the day you're just crippling your performance by not listening to others that know more about this than you do.

shut up dude.. you're just trying to start **** now

[1967cutlass]

shut up dude.. you're just trying to start **** now

I'm trying to talk sense into you but you don't want to hear it. Just keep doing what you're doing, maybe get an even bigger wing for some extra downforce. Good times.

[hit25cal]

I'm trying to talk sense into you but you don't want to hear it. Just keep doing what you're doing, maybe get an even bigger wing for some extra downforce. Good times.

Go read up on aerodynamic effects (or how it effects the air) of a spoiler... there is actual gains to be made in handling from mounting a "wing" on a FWD car

As a car speeds up, the body of the car actually acts like a wing. This causes a low pressure area above the car, and a high pressure area below the car. Lift is achieved. This creates a measurable effect at speeds as low as 15mph.

When you increase speed, the effects of lift can cause a loss of traction in turns, the effects of a spoiler can negate, or at least reduce, these effects allowing a car to go through a corner faster.

On FWD vehicle this is about all that the spoiler does, on a RWD or rear wheel biased AWD it aids in increasing acceleration, by providing more down-force on the drive wheels. To get the same effect on a FWD car you need a front spoiler, sometimes called a splitter or dive plain.

The purpose of a rear spoiler on a FWD car is to keep grip in place on the rear tires.

less weight being exerted on the tires (an effect of lift) = less grip
being able to increase the amount of grip on a tire = better handling

just to clear things up
wing = a device used to create lift
spoiler = a device to counteract lift

NOW CAN WE GET BACK ON TOPIC?

[hit25cal]

oh yeah a "wing" as you so incorrectly put it, also creates aerodynamic drag... that means that a larger spoiler would make a car go slower.

[1967cutlass]

oh yeah a "wing" as you so incorrectly put it, also creates aerodynamic drag... that means that a larger spoiler would make a car go slower.

Sorry my bad, I can't tell if it's a wing or a spoiler in that tiny ass pic. Either way I'm glad you are getting a measurable performance increase from it.