97, 1.5 dohc Spark + gas but no start

[rhys]

Helping son work on his car, but at a loss.

97 Protege, w/ 1.5 dohc. Car died on him on the way home one day, checked:
Fuel pump - working (didn't check pressure)
Got spark, all 4 plug wires

Found coolant in cylinder 4.

Removed head, checked at auto shop - warped - resurfaced.

Reinstalled with new head gasket, etc.

All plug reconnected, good gas, etc.

Still have good spark, and getting lots of gas, but turns and turns, no fire.

Per Haynes manual:
Aligned camshafts during reinstall, so timing marks of both were at top.
Cam sprocket installed with "Z" at 12", with timing marks on cams still at 12 o'clock
Pin on crank was centered at 12 o'clock, and timing belt installed, all known timing marks at 12 o'clock.... But I have to wonder about this.

Car has gas, spark, but no fire. No change with starting fluid into intake.

Any ideas?

[rhys]

Also, as an fyi, and kind of an apology, yes, I did search the forums. Only thing was I found a bunch of items that sound like they might be it, as far as cam sensors, distributors, not getting enough air, (doing compression check tomorrow... need to get the tester) Also, have seen conflicting timing layouts for the cams vs each other, and cams vs crank, and don't know which to believe.

So, I know there are a bunch of posts that are close, or cover parts, but I'm having trouble sorting out what the next step should be. I'm just frustrated as anything that I don't know what's next, he's spent a lot of money to get it this far, and he's getting close to just dumping the car.

Sorry for the whine... just been a long couple days trying to get this to run again.

[grey1]

I will bet on timing marks incorrect. sometimes a chore to get the tension set right when installing belt...a little common sense, the slack should be on the tensioner side.... Also shaving the head down can cause problem with belt timing.

If you pulled the head, then likely place to look is all connections being returned to their places.

this model has a cam position sensor? Look there.

Brake vacuum line




Is this chain driven exhaust cam or the double pully?

[rhys]

Thanks for the response. As I understand it, the cam sensor is built into the distributor assembly, along with the ignition coil and ignition module?

Have swapped that out already, no apparent change.

This is the one with the chain drive exhaust cam.

[grey1]

you are correct. I meant to say crank position sensor. It has been awhile, but I think 97 has one.

I would look at cam/belt timing.

I assume you have dialed the distributor around to find the sweet spot, or returned it to where it was?

check compression, even if you have to use your finger....or a stick with a plug on the end, unless you have super long fingers

[rhys]

Yep, the 97 does have a crank sensor, but I hadn't checked that, figured if that was bad I wouldn't be getting any spark at all, but will see if I can check it.

The cam / belt timing I have gone through multiple times, even looked at one in a yard to compare, and see if the repair manual was off. Everything looks like it matches, both the manual and the junker in the yard, unless I need to jump something one tooth either direction to account for the head getting surfaced.

Have tried swinging the distributor with it cranking from one extreme to the other, but doesn't seem to make a difference, still won't cough.

Did check compression with a gauge, but couldn't get the nozzle tight, so think all the numbers were low, but was getting compression on all 4.

Starting to get discouraged. Still seems like timing to me, but I don't know where to go with it from there, since it seems to be set like it's supposed to be.

[grey1]

Face Z mark on intake pully straight up. The other two marks on intake pully should align with valve cover. An “I” should be at 8 oclock and an “E” mark at 4 oclock..assuming you have the right pully on there to begin with.

Crank: Place the locating pin on pully boss at 12 oclock. I guess this means crank key at 12 oclock. Check whe piston is at highest point.

Exhaust: align marks on camshaft gears with marks on chain. Now unless you can see the colored chain links, this is useless info. You probably just need to make sure that intake and exhaust camshaft lobes are pointing in the right directon. Usually the one will be at 4 oclock while the opposite is at 8 oclock. They are sort of a mirror image. Usually chains are put on by using a wrench on the cam shaft to overcome valve spring pressure, otherwise you not get proper timing.

I don’t know what Haynes says. There is a downloadable FSM to be had…google it

[rhys]

Thanks for the info. I was hoping that's what it was supposed to be, but very glad, in a way, to get verification. Had a buddy that's a mechanic stop over yesterday, and that exactly matches what he did with it, as far as timing goes.

He also went through and double-checked spark, and gas, all looked good.

Then, he got out his compression checker, which was in a lot better shape than the one I borrowed from Autozone, so I figure the readings are closer than what I got before.

Cranked the engine over, and the pressure readings, from cyl 1-4 (in order) were:
60, 15, 25, 25.

Even accounting for the engine not being up to normal operating temp, that seems like a really bad deal. With the timing set correct, so the valves were open / closed when they should be, his best guess would be either blew all the rings out when it overheated, or cracked the block, with the block being the more likely of the two.

So, that means it's going to get expensive.

Anything else that would be easy to check before we decide between engine swap / junking it?

Thanks again for the time, this has been quite the ordeal for this backyard mechanic. Think I'll stick to brakes and oil changes from here, and leave the biggies to those who know more.

[grey1]

Anything else that would be easy to check before we decide between engine swap / junking it?

Thanks again for the time, this has been quite the ordeal for this backyard mechanic. Think I'll stick to brakes and oil changes from here, and leave the biggies to those who know more.

yep. if head was off at shop they should have checked/adjusted valve lash. these are adjustable with shims. Now you can.

I still think valve timing is off....did the lobes look like mirror image on each side?

get the fsm's and you can do alot of this stuff quickly

[rhys]

Yep, I checked the valve lash myself, and all were within specs. And yes, the lobes looked like mirror image.

After talking to a few more people, he has decided to give up on it. Can't justify putting any more money into it to fix it.

Thank you again for all your info. Your time was greatly appreciated.