98 Protege hard starting help!

[hesser414]

My wife and I have recently traded our Dodge truck for fuel reasons. Losing 8 cylinders makes a big difference. We took a 98 Mazda Protege with a 1.5 for trade. When we test drove the car, the check engine light was on. The people that traded us the car told us that it could be a little hard to start sometimes when the engine was cold. Well, to sum it up, we killed the battery in it trying to start it. When we did get it started, we took it to Advance Auto to have the codes read. We got 2 codes. One for the TPS sensor and one for cylinder 3 misfire. The person we got the car from told us in advance that it needed a TPS sensor. We replaced the sensor and have had an awful time since. The car will not start with out jumper cable life support from another vehicle because it will kill the battery trying. Eventually it will start.

Here's what I know so far.

I am getting fuel to the fuel rail and to the injectors.
I am getting spark across all 4 cylinders.

The person we got it from showed me the receipt where he had the following installed on it within the last 6 months.

New timing belt, water pump, fuel filter, fuel pump, distributor cap, plug wires, plugs, and a starter.

I also dropped new plugs in it when I put the TPS sensor in.

I played around with the distributor today to see if I could get it to start but it didn't seem to help. It took about 30 minutes of trying to start it every few minutes before the engine would run under it's own power. The engine seems to shake a lot while it idles like there is a misfire. Any ideas? I've seen someone post the exact same problem on a different forum with no replies.

Oh and BTW, this is my second protege! My first one was a 95! I sold it about 7 years ago.

Is it possible that when the timing belt was changed that the cams and crank were not aligned properly?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as we can't wait to get this little gas saver on the road!!!

[irishkev90]

Put a volt meter on the battery terminals while cranking the engine. The voltage should drop to no less than 9 volts.

Sounds like a problem I had last spring. I did a small tune up, took the starter to be tested, alternator charged fine and the battery held the charge fine. The one problem was the voltage drop when cranking. Mine went down to almost 5 volts.

As for the misfire, try cleaning the EGR valve on the bottom of the intake manifold. That solved my misfire problem. And since you're at it, get some MAF cleaner and spray the MAF hot wire and mesh screen. Doing so noticeably smoothed my rough idle.

Keep us updated on what works and what doesn't. We'll do our best to help.

[hesser414]

I'll check the battery, but I'm pretty sure the battery is ok. It just dies because it takes so long to start the car. I clean the egr and the maf sensors, but my big issue is getting the car to start. Someone told me the crank position sensor could be bad. But, wouldn't that throw a code? And would it start with a bad sensor? I had a Nissan with a bad crank sensor and the car would start, but it would stumble and hesitate under acceleration.

[irishkev90]

The crank sensor should throw a code, but I'd check it just to make sure anyway. I threw out the battery information because that was my problem and I didn't see it listed as something that was checked or replaced.

My car would sound like it half cranked with every twist of the key probably 20-30 times or more before it would finally start. It also smelled like the starter was burning up after trying to start it for so long. Once it started, it ran fine, though.

But, as I said before, cleaning the EGR solved my rough idle, hesitation, stalling and random misfire. They tend to get stuck open allowing exhaust gases to enter the combustion chamber at times when the engine doesn't want it there and can cause an unstable combustion and misfire which leads to rough idling, or worse, stalling of the engine.

Cleaning it is quite easy and much, much cheaper ($20-$30) than replacing it with a new one ($250-$300). I could walk you through it if needed.

I'll check my Haynes manual tomorrow about the crank sensor and get back to you. I haven't had a problem with mine so I haven't done any troubleshooting on it.

[Lonecs]

Really sounds like a battery issue. Either you need a new battery or terminal clamps are loose. Could be something else, but most likely is the battery from what I read ^.

[hesser414]

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone! I'll bring a volt meter home from work today and check the battery. I'll post this evening and let you know how it goes.

[irishkev90]

I seem to have misplaced my Haynes manual

I'll keep looking and get back to you when I find it.

edit: Found it.

"Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance of the crankshaft position sensor. It should read between 500 to 600 ohms depending on the temperature; the warmer the temperature of the sensor, the higher the resistance value. if the resistance is not within the specified range, replace the sensor.

Using a feeler gauge, measure the air gap between the crankshaft position sensor. The gap specification should be 0.020 to 0.059 inch (0.5 to 1.5 mm) If not as specified, replace the crankshaft pulley or the crankshaft position sensor."

[hesser414]

Ok, due to some BS drama at work I couldn't bring the voltmeter home. But I did hook up a battery from my van to it. I know my van battery is in good shape as I drive the van to work every day. I also cleaned the MAF sensor with some MAF cleaner. Sadly, nothing has changed. Engine still won't start.

Let me see if I can be a little more specific about the starting. When you turn the key the starter runs and after a few tries you can hear the engine attempting to start. You can take a few breaks and smell gas under the hood. Considering the battery will hold up, if you keep doing this eventually the engine will start and idles terribly. As the engine warms up the idle gets a little more stable. If you drive it and have the engine under a load, it seems to run fine. As long as the engine is warm, it will restart. If you let it sit to long and cool off, forget it. You have to start all over again. When I had it running yesterday and drove it down the road and back the check engine light was flashing. The last time we had the codes read, we had to start it the same way. TPS sensor and cylinder 3 misfire. We have replaced the TPS sensor and reset the ECU. But the engine still starts the same.

I hope this info helps...

[hesser414]

Tomorrow after work I'll be pulling the fuel pump out and checking it. If the fuel pump is ok I'll be pulling the valve cover off to check the cam sprockets and see if they are lined up. I've already set the #1 piston at TDC and pulled the plugs back out. I'll post how it goes. They people we got the car from said they changed the fuel pump already but I don't really don't know what else to do...