Several Questions Regarding Turbos

[TH3B34ST]

1. Would a cold air intake work with a turbocharger? 2. If so, then what cold air intake do you recommend? 3. How do I know what size turbocharger would work for my mazda protege 2000 lx 1.6 liter? I am wanting to get a godspeed one. Does a turbocharger need to be dynoed before using it? ok that is all of my questions for now. thanks in advance. sorry, but i am new to all of this xD

[TH3B34ST]

dont like double posting, but this post has been here for a week and still no replies...

[goldstar]

Yes, a CAI would work with a turbo. In fact, a turbo needs a CAI even more so than a normally aspirated engine. Why? To ensure maximum charge air density. For more information, go to:

http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/showthread.php?48459

I don't recommend any specific CAI because structural limitations generally determine the layout used, particularly in the case of FI.

I don't know what size turbo you'd need, off hand, for a 1.6 L engine and I know nothing about Godspeed turbos. For information on turbo sizing and anything else you need to know:
Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing and Installing Tubocharger Systems by Corky Bell; Chapter 3: Selecting the Turbocharger, pages 23-37. Available from Amazon.

Happy Motoring!

[SPENONE]

ALso, the size of the turbocharger depends on what your power goals are too.

What are you looking to do?

[TH3B34ST]

thanks for the responses. I do not plan on doing any drag racing. I just want to get some nice power off the line. It will go good with my magnaflow muffler sound. Are there things that I will need to put on my car before getting a turbo installed?

[Ace]

Cai's are basically ineffective for a turbo application. Think about it, the intake goes through the turbo which is driven by hot exhaust gasses. So no matter what you do your turbo outlet air temps are going to be high. That's what you run an intercooler for. Size is a big factor though, a stock vj20 setup will have significant gains with a larger Intake than the factory piece.

[goldstar]

thanks for the responses. I do not plan on doing any drag racing. I just want to get some nice power off the line. It will go good with my magnaflow muffler sound. Are there things that I will need to put on my car before getting a turbo installed?

You're welcome.

Make sure your engine, transmission and clutch are in good shape before you consider adding boost. Since you're building a daily driver, and I assume not planning to strengthen engine internals, limit the maximum boost to 6-7 psi gauge as this will give you some nice power off the line, and still maintain decent reliability. It should also go good with your Magnaflow muffler sound.

He who boosts but not too high,
Lets his engine live, not die.

As to things needed to be done to the car before adding a turbo, this is largely a matter of personal preference. Before adding a turbo, as a minimum I would improve the handling (springs, shocks, stabilizer bars), replace the wheels with ones that could support wider tread, lower profile tires, and ensure the adequacy of the brake system. And, if you haven't already done so, switch to a true synthetic engine and transmission oil. After the turbo installation, switch to a one heat range colder plug with platinum or iridium/platinum electrodes.

Happy Motoring!

[TH3B34ST]

wow. thats a lot of stuff for a minimum. As to the CAI I am even more confused now. goldstar says it helps out with the turbo, but ace says that they are ineffective... What about a short RAM intake? Or a weapon r intake?

[goldstar]

Cai's are basically ineffective for a turbo application. Think about it, the intake goes through the turbo which is driven by hot exhaust gasses. So no matter what you do your turbo outlet air temps are going to be high. That's what you run an intercooler for. Size is a big factor though, a stock vj20 setup will have significant gains with a larger Intake than the factory piece.

I absolutely don't agree.

The absolute size of an intercooler is limited by structural considerations. Regardless of intercooler size, the outlet temperatures of both the blower and the intercooler are a function of their respective intake temperatures. Ambient temperature intake air at the blower input results in much lower outlet air tempratures at the intercooler and ultimately in the combustion chamber when compared with the ingestion of hot underhood air at the blower inlet. Given that underhood air temperatures are considerably hotter in a turbo vs. a normally aspirated engine, the temperature difference can be considerable. Differences of 40-50* F, and higher, have been reported.

Reducing air temperature increases air density and therefore absolute boost for any given air pump pressure ratio, yielding increased HP output. Additionally, intake air temperature should be kept to a minimum at the start of the compression stroke since the higher the temperature at the start of compression, the higher will be all temperatures throughout the rest of the cycle and the greater the potential for knock. Finally, from a design standpoint, lowering the combustion temperature permits the use of a higher mechanical CR permitting maximum thermal efficiency when off-boost.

Happy Motoring!

[SPENONE]

I personally wouldn't throw a cold air intake on my setup, but I do see how it can be a benefit when it comes to temperatures. I would just box the intake up and figure out a way for it to get air flowing to that area.

Sort of like this:

[goldstar]

wow. thats a lot of stuff for a minimum. As to the CAI I am even more confused now. goldstar says it helps out with the turbo, but ace says that they are ineffective... What about a short RAM intake? Or a weapon r intake?

Well, as I said,what to do to prepare a car for a turbo installation is purely a matter of personal choice. You could also choose to do nothing.

Instead of being confused, why don't you do a little research and come to your own conclusion as to the type of turbo air intake you think you should use for maximum benefit. I've already cited one reference in post #3 which discusses the relation between temperature, air density and power output, and another useful one is:

http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/showthread.php?48785

I strongly suggest you look at Corky Bell's book, "Maximum Boost" (also referenced above). In Chapter 14: Testing the System, page 166, he makes the following point:
"The air temperature entering the compressor is vital information, because it is the number from which all others are calculated. Do not assume this temperature is ambient. If the air inlet is outside the engine compartment, compressor inlet temperature may be the same as ambient. If it is in the engine compartment, too often the inlet air is diluted by air that has passed through the radiator or looped around the exhaust manifold."

I'm sure you can find other references on your own. After examining the data you should be able to reach your own conclusions about the best way to proceed, irrespective of what anyone has said.

IMHO, a SRI is the worst possible intake to use with a turbo installation, but hey, feel free to follow your own inclinations.

Happy Motoring!

[TH3B34ST]

ok. thanks everyone for all of this good information. I need to wait a few more paychecks before I purchase a turbo, so it will be a few months before I actually get one.

[TH3B34ST]

One more question. Will a cold air intake that says it's for a 1.8L 00 protege work with my 1.6L 00 protege?

[firelizard]

No.

And "cold air intake" is a really vague term at best. Nothing off the shelf will work, and when it comes to designing a turbo system from scratch, you pretty much put the intake wherever is most practical. The entire intake tract needs to be reworked anyways, so might as well put the beginning of the intake somewhere cooler if you can. That could be a long pipe or a short pipe, it depends where your turbo is located. I suspect air temperature before the compressor is not going to change a lot no matter where you put your filter, in a Protege engine bay, unless you put it somewhere radical.

I wouldn't reckon you should put a real big turbo on a stock 1.6L Z.... something like a T25 would likely be plenty. Turbos in that size family can be good for up to 250whp on a well designed setup, so it's definitely not going to be the limiting factor.

[TH3B34ST]

the t25 kit is like $2700! There is no way that I can afford that! What about a t3/t4?
Is this kit legit? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...#ht_3965wt_960
I am not so sure about getting a turbo kit. If this $500 kit is any good... installation would cost around $500?... and then dynoed is like what another $500. Thats $1500 right there.(duh) This turbo probably isnt worth getting, so a quality turbo at best would be around $1000 (at least?). that is a lot of money for me! I just started college for pete's sake.