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My first posted project - SS brakelines

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    My first posted project - SS brakelines

    Yesterday I have said to my girlfriend it's enough bull**** and we should fix my spongy brakes ASAP. And then I jacked the car up and the epopee began...




    I still have no jackstands so I had to improvise as much as I could. At the moment the garage is a complete mess so expect you won't comment any of it. And yes, I am aware that my suspension got ton of rust on it but I am still waiting till spring to cut out the floor of the garage to have a channel so I can work underneath the car easily. Coilovers are about to be replaced too in near future so everything you see rusting won't be for too long now.

    I have spent whole day working and I have done one wheel and both drums.

    I know most Pros in USA have rear disc brakes but anyway. Well from my experience I can say that after 13 years drums were thick, diameter is within limits and they still have got much meat on it. Shoes on the other hand were worn down almost completely (see picture).
    I cleaned drums with steel brushes on a power drill and also manually with hand so it is pretty simple if you have the motivation. You can clearly see the before and after pic of drums. The only problem I noticed is that the inner lip on the backplate which goes on the hub is very thin and after ages it corrodes and I doubt anything can save it. It bends quickly so you have to be careful when installing the drum otherwise it'll drag. Other thing worth mentioning is that the outer surface of the drums where the lip is looked kinda bubbly and rusty. It looked like it was some kind of bushing but rubber would disintegrate so it had to be a coating of some type or something like that.

    When you are taking off old brake lines you are never too sure what will happen. Always unscrew the brake lines easily, in steps and don't push it. Use a lot of WD-40 to get temporary lubrication. Hold the metal piping with one hand so you won't bend it with force applied to the screw. Always make sure you haven't bent anything you didn't want to.
    In my situation I had to give up the U-clips that hold the lines on the coilover and body. The gap is too small to fit it on but lines are otherwise well fixed and they won't and can't slide out.

    It is nice to work on your car with a girlfriend. Girls can get small parts super clean and shiny.
    More pics later in the day and of course less talking. It is like 2 degrees above freezing point and I have to finish this thing today otherwise I'll be stuck in snow tomorrow.

    Cheers!
    Attached Files
    Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

    PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

    #2
    I forgot to add - drum brakes on Proteges/323's are identical from 1990-2003 (BG, BHA and BJ).
    Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

    PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

    Comment


      #3
      did you adjust the shoes so they are right against the drums, that way the moment you touch the brake pedal, they make contact with the drums

      Comment


        #4
        Actualy most proteges from 95-2000 have rear drum.
        Beater=/= Sleeper

        Originally posted by kozzman555
        kitty, you are a hilarious woman
        Originally posted by HopelessCow
        there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
        Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

        Comment


          #5
          Good job
          1993 Protege LX-Midnight's shadow SOLD
          1996 Honda CBR600-Wrecked. Damn Honda crippled me
          2002 mazda MPV-family truckster SOLD
          2010 VW routon

          Originally posted by jay
          .....they totally underestimated the number of gearheads such as myself that have families but refuse to grow the hell up and stop playing with cars, or that otherwise see the utility of having 4 doors. Obviously I ain't alone, as there are a helluva lotta sti and evo here. Bueler? Beuler? Mazda? Mazda?

          Comment


            #6
            Okay, an update. Yesterday I called my friend and we intended to finish the job. I have run into series of issues because rubber hoses actually rusted on the metal piping (I really don't know what's that metal piping called properly in auto vocabulary) so I had to order new ones. Went to auto store and they have cut me three of them, we have carefully bent it and replaced both rear pipings that go from the back of the brake housing to the brake line. Again U-clips had to be improvised otherwise I'd have spare ones which is not my style.

            Now since we solved that issue my main braking problem persist. After a test drive the pedal has the same travel as before - very deep (remember that I want to get rid of it). The braking is consistent otherwise - there's no brake fade but even though I cannot lock the wheels completely. I have to admit that I haven't pay much attention to front calipers and pads. I just removed pads, cleaned them and greased them between the plates as the manual says, then put them back on. One problem is that one pad on each side has residue fillament in the centre groove. I didn't want to hammer it or anything. Can that be a problem? Also the edges of pads are a bit bitten away but the thickness is almost perfect.
            What can be the problem for non-aggressive braking? I can stop the car normally but emergency braking is kinda silly for last six months and it is still with new brake lines.
            The emergency brake is not adjusted yet but this couldn't be the problem, right?
            Should I go and take aparat front calipers so I can lubricate the bushings? I wasn't planning on doing on the slave cylinder or anything but when a mechanic replaced my pads and discs he said it is necessary to lubricate those bushings. Also the clearance betwen pads and the discs is minimal and they even drag a bit but rotation is otherwise smooth. Only two things come into my mind - it can be either those bushings and some maintenance work or it can go worst and it can be at the master cylinder. Or should I go with rebuild calipers and new pads anyway? They are like $40 here for a set.
            Anybody else? I would really appreciate the help.
            Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

            PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

            Comment


              #7
              The air and foggy residue of old brake oil were all bled out. In the end we had only clear yellow oil flowing through the transparent bleeding hose we used. We checked three times if the air escaped completely and it did. Does oil need a period to kick in?
              Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

              PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

              Comment


                #8
                Don't worry about the calipers not getting lubed. They'll still brake just as well until they die from inproper maitnece

                Did you bleed the brakes correcly?
                As in rR,lR,rF,lF.

                Did you ever let the MC resivour go dry?

                Bleed the brakes again. Just in case.
                Beater=/= Sleeper

                Originally posted by kozzman555
                kitty, you are a hilarious woman
                Originally posted by HopelessCow
                there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
                Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

                Comment


                  #9
                  We did leave the reservoir go dry because of the broken piping that had to be replaced. Is that somehow catastrophic?
                  But I am kinda not sure if that's the issue. I just came home from his workshop and he called one Mazda guy, he came and said we should take care of caliper bushings and guides. We did that. Guides were sort of rusted on but we got it out with hitting. We cleaned it and sand it, put together and after ten minutes of the caliper being installed it already blocked the guides. We had to take it apart three times before we got into situation when they were good for half an hour. We bolted them on and ran it left and right with hands to verify it is not blocked again.

                  We flushed the system already with 2 litres of brake fluid, the flow was TOTALLY clear! We bled it like you said - first in the back then in the front.
                  And yes, today we let the reservoir dry again because there's no other way to take calipers for closer inspection.

                  I really don't know how to move on. We'll put it to rest for now till thursday.
                  When we air bled the system for the first time yesterday there were so many bubbles in the beginning and somewhere in the middle on almost every point where the system can be bled, that we must be stupid if we let the air in.
                  I also called my friend who's an engineer of mechanics and auto tech (unfortunately he's 200 km away) and he said the same thing that we didn't air bled it enough. My friend that worked with me today and yesterday is also experienced car repair guy - they run family auto body business for 25 years now.

                  I really love this car but right now I just want to kick her in the ass so she lands somewhere near Hiroshima or something...
                  I have to add again that braking experience is somehow the same as before with old oil and lines.

                  Also I am not saying that anyone of us is wrong or right. I accept any advice you provide me and thanks for help, guys! But there has to be something behind the issue. Remember that brakes were bad before already.
                  When I press it almost completely the last steps are harsh so the thing is grabbing alright but still the travel is too short for calipers to block the wheels.

                  I am kinda desperate... just like a woman.
                  Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

                  PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You're not bleeding the brake properly.
                    You sit at one caliper untill no air bubble are visible from the line you should be running to the bleeder. While bleeding you CAN NOT let the MC resivour go 1/4 below full.

                    Since you've removed all the brake lines you should do a full bleed than go back to each caliper one more time to make sure its coplettly bled.
                    Beater=/= Sleeper

                    Originally posted by kozzman555
                    kitty, you are a hilarious woman
                    Originally posted by HopelessCow
                    there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
                    Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Look we let the reservoir go dry when we disconnected RR brake line. You cannot plug that tiny hole if you understand me. We just had to let it drain out. When we finished this job and got everything tight and measured then we started air bleeding. Reservoir was constantly to the max. Then we did as you said - LR RR LF RF and then repeated it one more time on every wheel. After first round of bleeding we got air in the first place, then fog and then clear oil only. When clear oil has shown constant flow we moved on to next wheel. After that we repeated this one more time to make sure it's air-free.
                      Reservoir didn't go dry when we bled the brakes - it went dry before bleeding, when we were installing the brake lines.
                      Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

                      PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have managed to fix the problem. The system got some of the air stuck inside. As I can interpret it the system needs a bit of time to pressurize again so all of the air accumulates somewhere. Also my friend the auto engineer said that this was probably the case - the air didn't have enough chances to escape down and wait for me to bleed it again. After 100 km with ****ty brakes I have bled the system and now brakes work just as they should.

                        Here are final pictures. Thanks everybody for cooperation and help! I owe you all!
                        Attached Files
                        Garage: Mazda Protege 1995, Z5 engine, MTX, P/S, no A/C, no ABS.

                        PM me if you need: comprehensive Autodata information; Mazda's 2nd generation workshop manual; Mazda's Z5 overhaul workshop manual.

                        Comment

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